How to recognize an original sealed pack ?

[Ceesmk]

I've got a question; how can we recognize an original sealed pack and a copy? Since some months, it's very easy to find sealed packs (still expensive) München 74 and Argentina 78. Most of them are in reality copies.
I was OK to buy a packet Argentina 78 but at the end the seller proposed to me a 2nd pack only for 15 Euros, and eventually a sealed pack München 74 and even Mexico 70. Of course I guessed immediately that it was finally a copy, and he said to me "yes".
Finally, he was honnest but how can be sure if I want to buy an Argentina (or a München) pack? (except if I know very well the seller and his reputation) I ask the question because some people there are perfectly able to recognize copies of Mexico 70.

 

[redwhite]

A very good question, but on a picture it's not always easy to recognize a copy. Especially purchasing or swapping a Mexico70-packet is very dangerous.

You have to feel the paper. When it's thicker for example then I shouldn't trust it. You have to see at least a silhouet of the stickers inside. If you can recognize something inside, I guess it's a good sign. Original packets has mostly ribbles at the side. I think the best way to recognize a real from a copy is making a high resolution scan of it or checking it with a magnifying glass. If you see dots then it's digital printed (CYMK) and fake.

 

[Ceesmk]

I don't want to purchase a Mexico 70, it's too expensive; but I tried to find a Munchen 74 and an Argentina 78. Before we found only original packs, but now there are too much fakes. Sometimes the seller himself doesn't know that their packs are fakes

 

[LeicesterRob]

Thanks for the information on this @redwhite and @Ceesmk It's great info and advice which I very much appreciate.

I have another angle to this conversation where original packets have been opened and re-sealed. I suspect the good stickers have been removed to be replaced with not so good stickers.

Look out for packets that have the following issues:

1. Packets have a wavy feel to the side
(usually means they've been opened and re-glued badly)

2. Packets were slightly smaller than others from the same collection
(usually means they've been carefully cut and re-sealed)

3. Stickers move about inside the packet or are at a slight angle
(should be vacuum sealed and not moving)

4. Stickers that are visible through the packet have issues too e.g. France 98
(its very easy to spot which have a badge and which don't have a badge when you have the sealed packet in your hand. You can guess where I'm heading with this...those packets that have a badge have probably already been opened so the badge can be sold and those without an obvious badge are sold sealed. This is less of an issue compared to re-sealed packets but something to be aware of)

I would say 'buyer beware' is very important. I rarely buy sealed packets from old collections and generally just collect one to put with my finished album.

Just as @Ceesmk states I really don't think all sellers know what is fake or has been tampered with as many of the items being sold are re-sold again.

 

[Ceesmk]

Hi!

Here is a replica on Ebay: the seller is honnest and wrote the truth; but how can we know that this is a copy? If somebody has an idea^^
Tomorrow, you can buy it, and sell it 60 Euros saying that it's an original...

http://www.ebay.fr/itm/Panini-WC-1974-Munich-Munchen-Pochette-Replica-Neuf-Football-World-Cup-Tute-Rare-/262798818284?hash=item3d3007bbec:g:ysoAAOSwA3dYZWib

 

[Danju]

the queston is, what is inside those packets ? replica stickers too ?

 

[marinerpete]

A lot of these Chinese versions are appearing. Fake or genuine?

 

[redwhite]

A lot of these Chinese versions are appearing. Fake or genuine?
View attachment 9315View attachment 9316

These 2 versions are also new for me, so it can be dangerous.

I can tell you for 100% sure that at least the Chinese Road To Russia 2018-packet is a fake one, due it doesn't exist with a Chinese label.
My source is a Chinese collector who translated me the label of that packet and so we figured out that the first line (product name) was incorrect and that the text was copied from the FIFA 365 2017-collection.
To be sure he also contacted the Chinese distributor and the staff confirmed him that there were no Chinese RTWC18-packets distributed with such a label.

Currently it's a busy weekend for me, but later this week I'll contact my Chinese contact again and will ask him to translate me the label of the WC06 and EC12-packet. I hope the picture is big enough to be readable.


UPDATE:
@marinerpete: I just checked the site of figurinepanini.org and there I see another different Chinese label as shown on your source.
It's also not cutted very well, so for me this version is probably a fake version.
see screenshot:

UPDATE 2:
another example to show this seller is not trustfull.
He's selling a Chinese FIFA365 2018-packet with a Chinese label. That version doesn't exist with a label, only purple back.

In attachment I'll add a screenshot of that fake Chinese FIFA365 2018-pack

 

[marinerpete]

These 2 versions are also new for me, so it can be dangerous.

I can tell you for 100% sure that at least the Chinese Road To Russia 2018-packet is a fake one, due it doesn't exist with a Chinese label.
My source is a Chinese collector who translated me the label of that packet and so we figured out that the first line (product name) was incorrect and that the text was copied from the FIFA 365 2017-collection.
To be sure he also contacted the Chinese distributor and the staff confirmed him that there were no Chinese RTWC18-packets distributed with such a label.

Currently it's a busy weekend for me, but later this week I'll contact my Chinese contact again and will ask him to translate me the label of the WC06 and EC12-packet. I hope the picture is big enough to be readable.


UPDATE:
@marinerpete: I just checked the site of figurinepanini.org and there I see another different Chinese label as shown on your source.
It's also not cutted very well, so for me this version is probably a fake version.
see screenshot:

UPDATE 2:
another example to show this seller is not trustfull.
He's selling a Chinese FIFA365 2018-packet with a Chinese label. That version doesn't exist with a label, only purple back.

In attachment I'll add a screenshot of that fake Chinese FIFA365 2018-pack

Thanks for this. The labels are all the same for many packets. Tells me they are putting labels on normal packets and selling them off as Chinese.

 

[redwhite]

Thanks for this. The labels are all the same for many packets. Tells me they are putting labels on normal packets and selling them off as Chinese.

It seems like this seller is indeed sticking those labels by himself.

The real Chinese packets with sticked labels are the packets from the collections FIFA365 2016 + 2017 (not those from 2018), EC16, WC10 (see screenshot in attachment).
All other Chinese packs are directly printed on the packs like those from the collections WC 14, CL12-13, CL13-14.

 

[redwhite]

In the meantime my very trustfull source got a confirmation from the Chinese distributor that the following 4 packets with Chinese label are 100% fake:

1. EURO 2012
The label shown on this picture has a wrong item name.
But the Chinese distributor told to my source that there were EC12-packets released with an original and correct Chinese label (!). Those packets are currently out of stock. Unfortunately never seen any picture of the original one


2. World Cup 2006
The distributor became the Chinese agent of Panini since 2010, so also those Chinese WC06 packets doesn't exist.


3. FIFA356 edition 2018
Never released with a Chinese label, just purple back without sticker


4. Road To World Cup RUSSIA
incorrect product name & never released with a Chinese label, 100% fake!

 

[redwhite]

This is a picture of an ORIGINAL packet with CHINESE label.
I've got the picture from a Dutch collector who could purchase it from the Chinese distributor just before it came out of stock:
100% original


and unfortunately this is the fake packet with a bigger label that is cutted and sticked by an amateur.
It's also less sharp that the original one. The typo is also different, more whitespace between the characters, at least the big gaps between the first 2/3 characters (left before the double point) is good viewable.

100% fake

 

[Pavle]

These are some shocking information here. I'd only like to mention that the domain figurinepanini.org is infringing copyrights of the Panini Group, so that fact alone would be a red flag to me when buying from the store.

 

[redwhite]

... and the same fake EC12 packet is sold at eBay for more than 50 EUR, also the non existing WC06 packet sold for a high price.




Currently 3 fake packets are for sale at eBay.

 

[redwhite]

It can't be a coincidence

screenshot made 25/02/18 (see also earlier post of that day in this thread)

screenshot made today 20/03/18

picture hosting

picture from auction


So if we compare all those labels we have at least 3 fake different labels. None of the typo is the same.

 

[redwhite]

And here we have again 2 fake Chinese packets.

WHY????

 

[Dieter]

There's so much fake stuff, it hurts my heart... How can we tell if it's fake or not will be a major discussion of the years, and fakes will get better in time.

 

[ElPrince]

In general it's not a good thing to consider as a variation one common packet with a label on the backside... In this way everyone can build his own variation with alll the consequences.

 

[redwhite]

At least the first seller removed all the fake packets from his website and eBay auctions, but for the seller's reputation it's too late. Blacklisted forever!

 

[Pavle]

Good point @ElPrince , I personally don't consider a variation with a label on it a variation.