FanTop - Polish Online Shop - Bad Experiences

Pavle

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All the topics unrelated to the 365 Adrenalyn discussion have now been moved here, where you guys can continue to discuss about this matter , as we do not want the other topic to go out of control. Thanks for understanding.
 

LFC1892

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@dantzig what I found helpful was that when I had questions Wojtek always promptly answered. Wonder if you dealt with another person at Fan Top !!! My last order which arrived last week was all cards so shipping was like 15zl and it was priority.

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt in any walk of life. I bought from Maks again(Panini ADX 365) last week just to see if they have improved. Granted the packs are still on BO I think but we'll see how they communicate and how fast they send it.

Have you tried sellers from Germany ? They are very good. I have not had a bad experience so far. Coolcard from Sweden are top notch as well. Very fast service and top lads to deal with. Anders & Gustaf if you need names.
 

dantzig

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@dantzig what I found helpful was that when I had questions Wojtek always promptly answered. Wonder if you dealt with another person at Fan Top !!! My last order which arrived last week was all cards so shipping was like 15zl and it was priority.

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt in any walk of life. I bought from Maks again(Panini ADX 365) last week just to see if they have improved. Granted the packs are still on BO I think but we'll see how they communicate and how fast they send it.

Have you tried sellers from Germany ? They are very good. I have not had a bad experience so far. Coolcard from Sweden are top notch as well. Very fast service and top lads to deal with. Anders & Gustaf if you need names.
He signed as Wojtek, so it must be him (if there's anybody else there)... And with Andy and Manfred experiences, seems customer service is not well applied there... Just pray you won't get the troubles we got!

Will give a second chance from Maks, if I need to... That empty album all messed up (sent only inside a bubble envelope, which is not good for albums) and some packets smelling off tobacco didn't left me a good impression (though the James LE I received for free was very nice).

Yep, I've bought from many places, I've even did some reviews for our blog (check it out if you haven't yet)... Germans are always top notch, except one I will not name... Nordic are very serious, will try one day Coolcard (tried MNcards, but he's left the business to take care his family).
 

LFC1892

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@dantzig maks sent me 2 orders in bubble wrap envelopes that had binders in them, they do the same if you buy from their ebay shop.
Very amateurish & cheap to say the least. What is the blog link please I will defo check it out?
 

dantzig

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Manfred

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Andy, am a subscriber to your your tube channel but a different username ;) and I value your opinion as a collector and a person but what good would it do slaughtering the fella without proof. As I said earlier above there is no proof that such shenanigans can be done when it comes to picking packs that got more desirable cards or what not.
Without proof ????? 4 Nordic box: 200 boosters with only 1 (ONE!) shiny card is enough proof. Also 3 starters without limited editions and boosters is again enough proof to me. Several people, experienced collectors, admitted to me that in earlier editions of Adrenalyn XL cards it was possible to sort the boosters in ones with shinies and one without. And rereading your comment you are actually implying that we are the liars. I not only lost almost 300 euros, now I am also insulted!
 

Andy

Active Member
Andy, am a subscriber to your your tube channel but a different username ;) and I value your opinion as a collector and a person but what good would it do slaughtering the fella without proof. As I said earlier above there is no proof that such shenanigans can be done when it comes to picking packs that got more desirable cards or what not.
Firstly, just like to say Im really glad you have had a "positive" experience with this shop of con artists. At least one person has. Just to address your worry about me slaughtering the fella without proof i can answer that in 3 parts as i would NEVER slaughter a shop who sells authentic products with adequate customer service (neither of which this shop provides):

(i) In respect of Manfred's box - these if not properly factory sealed can easily be tampered with especially the card collection series Manfred purchased in good faith... pack searching is what people call it... it is very easy a couple of years ago to get certain picture packs which would contain a certain type of insert card...after which the person can easily feel the cards inside the pack based on thickness and decide that a certain pack has a certain card in it. I have done many videos on that technique in the past on my channel but deleted them to try and stop people going in stores and pack searching. the GOOD packs were obviously then replaced in the box Manfred was sent leaving him with an incorrect ratio of different cards. NO card company would ever be allowed to make that mistake when cards are shown in ratios otherwise they would be up before the "trade description act" before they knew it!!

(ii) The fantop guy mustve read this post previously and contacted @Pavle the owner of this message board and threatened legal action (quite obviously a load of rubbish as maybe he should understand the laws of the land!! @Pavle told him where to go...but just shows you how this person is trying to rip off numerous people without word getting out of their experience.

(iii) I think you need to read this entire thread buddy to see the amount of people this person has done wrong... it is not just Manfred (a very good friend of mine) who this shop has ripped off... Without knowing who I am, he decided to rip me off. In case you missed my experience with this disgusting excuse for a human being, here is my original post copied again:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi, just wanted to share with you guys the worst buying experience i have ever had ONLINE bar NONE!! I ordered numerous products from a place called fantop.pl (kenobi.pl on email)...

i spent in total around 377zl but firstly was refunded 48zl for an item which they didnt have in stock, which was fair enough. On receipt of the item today however they accidentally put in a german edition RT Euro 2016 mega starter pack instead of 2 Polish Issue mega Starter packs. ok, I thought, no problem will notify them of the error and they will rectify...

To my dismay from the copies of the emails below however, you will see, they decided to call me a LIAR and suggest i was trying to get an extra copy of the starter pack - bare in mind that i spend around £1000+ on products per year do they really think i would try and get a £6 product for FREE!!! What they are annoyed about is their mistake they have made, to put the error right they would have to send another shipment from Poland to England at their own cost...something which they should do as a reputable store but what they are not prepared to do.

I WILL NEVER DEAL WITH THEM AGAIN AND I WILL TELL EVERY COLLECTOR I KNOW NOT TO DEAL WITH THEM.
SIMPLY THE WORST CUSTOMER SERVICE I HAVE EVER ENCOUNTERED.


THEY ARE COMPLETE TOSSERS. LUCKILY I HAVE RAISED A PAYPAL DISPUTE AND WILL ALSO LET MY POLISH YOUTUBER FRIENDS KNOW ABOUT THIS SO THEY CAN ADVISE THEIR SUBSCRIBERS AS WELL AS OBVIOUSLY WILL TELL OF MY EXPERIENCES TO EVERYONE I SPEAK WITH...all for them stealing around £6 worth from me!!

THEIR ADDRESS SHOULD THEY TRY AND CHANGE THEIR NAME ON EBAY OR ANYTHING:
kenobi
Al.Śliwowa 45 b
54-106 Wroclaw
Poland



From:
kenobi.pl
Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2015 11:25 AM
To: Andy
Subject: Re: order ----

it is impossible,
I remember very well your shipment.
However, if you insist that you receive German version - in which I do not believe -
the complaint process is only one. You must advertise a product - that is, you need to send it to us at your expense.
greet

fantop


W dniu 2015-06-03 o 12:13, Andy :
Hi,


I received some items however didnt receive all the remaining order though as has been an unfortunate mistake:
I ordered 2x POLISH MEGA STARTER PACKS SEALED (MEGA ZESTAW STARTOWY) ROAD TO EURO 2016 Adrenalyn XL as you will see from the order. I only received 1 and 1x GERMAN EDITION MEGA STARTER PACK RT EURO 2016 which i didnt order?? Please can you advise as I dont need the german edition, i need 2 sealed Polish editions so am missing one of those.
many thanks. Andy
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lastly, sorry for the long message, but I feel very very strongly about this...this person cannot continue to conduct business in the manner he does at the moment. So trust me i will tell EVERYONE i know not to deal with them based on MINE and other people i respect like Carlos, Manfred's experiences. That being said I am glad you are happy with the service you received from them. Its good to see both sides for neutrals.
 

Andy

Active Member
I can't talk about manipulated products, I think I always received brand new products... Starter Packs, Tinballs, Giftboxes... Many, many loose cards... Actually, I purchased a full AXL 2014 WC box, but that was to my friend who likes to keep brand new products (he doesn't collect sets)... One day I'll check with him.

Anyway, @LFC1892, at least with you he gave another option, to me was like this "I can't send all you purchased because I pay much more for shipping, therefore I send you X from this and Y from this"... Didn't ask what items I would prefer to be sent, let alone give a "Ship" option (but you're from Canada, so it makes more sense I guess)... Right after he sent the message, he marked the order as "shipped", with the transportation company already saying it was already on the way... All that made me mad and I wasn't kind answering him... Anyway, all story is in that thread Pavle shared in some post above.


I've wondered if you let that go, but it seems not, which is a relief for all community know what they should expect... I don't want the guy to be bankrupt nor desire a piano falls on his head, but he needs to treat better his customers and not be a jackass when someone demands a satisfaction for the poor service.

Anyway, those checkout issues are always a problem... And by coincidence (or not), polish sellers are not that good in that... Customer service could be better, though they're the best when sending gifts.
Would never let it go @dantzig - the mail still sits in the box in my spare room ready for video recording. He was lucky as the following week i went travelling around Australia and places for just over 2 months - but people need to know. Im also in contact with other polish sellers who will want positive feedback hence why the video is not complete yet.
 

dantzig

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Without proof ????? 4 Nordic box: 200 boosters with only 1 (ONE!) shiny card is enough proof. Also 3 starters without limited editions and boosters is again enough proof to me. Several people, experienced collectors, admitted to me that in earlier editions of Adrenalyn XL cards it was possible to sort the boosters in ones with shinies and one without. And rereading your comment you are actually implying that we are the liars. I not only lost almost 300 euros, now I am also insulted!
Calm down, Manfred... I'm sure he didn't meant to call you a liar... Sometimes when people are satisfied with something and then hear that something is not good, it's hard to believe... Don't take it personally, we're all on the same side here: true collecting.

LFC1892, see this video:
The guy put it on fast forward, but you can see him checking the packs... And like Andy said, before that, you could get the top cards only opening just few packets from any box.

@Andy, just one thing about ratios: sometimes you get much less or much more cards from certain categories because the insertion rate is not based in categories, is based in produced sheets (those big ones you see before the cutting process)... One example: in one WC 2014 AXL sealed box, I got only 1 team logo (should have been about 4), but also got 4 top masters (should have been 1 or 2)... So, ratios are completely unbalanced, but since both this cards are in the same sheet (you can find pictures of this uncut sheet), it's balanced... When the "machine" in Panini is inserting these cards, it doesn't take into account whether is a team logo, game changer (the other category in this sheet) and top master, so in theory, you can even get about 8 top masters and no team logos or game changers... But that would be almost like winning the lottery ;)

If you can, check your video about WC 2014 nordic edition unboxing... I remember you opened a box with 4 nordic cards, when you usually get 2, right? Probably you got less from something on the same sheet as those nordic cards (they replace some in international version sheets).

With Manfred, it's clear even these unlikely scenarios don't apply, one shiny is impossible... But I bet you got a lot of those Star Players and such (it's WC 2014, right?)... Btw, you didn't complain with Paypal?
 

Andy

Active Member
Calm down, Manfred... I'm sure he didn't meant to call you a liar... Sometimes when people are satisfied with something and then hear that something is not good, it's hard to believe... Don't take it personally, we're all on the same side here: true collecting.

LFC1892, see this video:
The guy put it on fast forward, but you can see him checking the packs... And like Andy said, before that, you could get the top cards only opening just few packets from any box.

@Andy, just one thing about ratios: sometimes you get much less or much more cards from certain categories because the insertion rate is not based in categories, is based in produced sheets (those big ones you see before the cutting process)... One example: in one WC 2014 AXL sealed box, I got only 1 team logo (should have been about 4), but also got 4 top masters (should have been 1 or 2)... So, ratios are completely unbalanced, but since both this cards are in the same sheet (you can find pictures of this uncut sheet), it's balanced... When the "machine" in Panini is inserting these cards, it doesn't take into account whether is a team logo, game changer (the other category in this sheet) and top master, so in theory, you can even get about 8 top masters and no team logos or game changers... But that would be almost like winning the lottery ;)

If you can, check your video about WC 2014 nordic edition unboxing... I remember you opened a box with 4 nordic cards, when you usually get 2, right? Probably you got less from something on the same sheet as those nordic cards (they replace some in international version sheets).

With Manfred, it's clear even these unlikely scenarios don't apply, one shiny is impossible... But I bet you got a lot of those Star Players and such (it's WC 2014, right?)... Btw, you didn't complain with Paypal?
yes ratios will obviously differ slightly Carlos because of the reason you mention...thats why they are just ratios but 1 insert card in 200 packs is no coincidence especially in the series Manfred purchased. To clarify that a bit more the Premier League set was released this week and their was a production problem inserting specific insert cards such as MOTM in the packs...this apparently mean't before issue a lot of the packs were hauled back by the card company in question to rectify meaning only a partial release. Thats how seriously these companies have to take things like that.
I wish i still had my original video i done online about the Panini Euro 2012 collection where it was easy to get 13 packets out of box of 50 and pull a rare insert card in every single packet. that is 100% what that guy done, sold the cards off in his shop as singles and made up boxes with the remaining 37packs he had per box for example.

To make matters worse, Im pretty sure that fantop doesnt have publication rights to defamate Bobby Moore in a promotional card they send out. For such an Icon, the amount of disrespect shown in that card is disgusting. His family has proceeds go to charity in his name so basically this fantop guy is ripping off a charitable cause as well by using images of Bobby Moore. That is the low of low.

I tell you, that guys lucky he doesnt live in England or I wouldve paid a visit to say hello to him. Not even one word of apology for the way he treats people.
Some people are too nice to complain especially collectors. I just loved it when @Pavle told him to do one when he threatened the message board with a load of bull...you dont mess with the serbs!! Had it been a message board run by English people (there is one I think?) they would've crapped themselves and been apologising all over the place like little bitches. :D:D:D
 

dantzig

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Ok, I'll play a bit devil's attorney with Manfred problem: could have been a Panini mistake? I'm saying this because I know in Brazil, they sometimes "forget" to insert some special stickers... For instance, Brasileirão 2015 had many problems with certain special stickers, which led to numerous complaints and even some reimbursements from Panini there... And it's not unusual to have problems there, they had issues with Women World Cup, like one or zero shinies per plastic envelope (they don't use boxes).

So, what I'm asking is if there's a possibility those boxes are the final product of someone in Panini who, purposedly or not, didn't insert the shiny cards? Though I'm much more leaned to believe it was a seller manipulation, we can't forget Panini does make mistakes... Once, in a portuguese card collection, I got only 44 different cards, out of 216... Box missed two packets, some had 8 cards while others had 4 (normal packet had 6), clearly a badly produced box... Then I tried buying 3 packets in a nearby store and again, the same cards, so in that area, stores received badly produced boxes.

One more thing: I don't understand why sellers do this... Don't they think they'll be easily caught? If I wanted to tamper some box with just low value cards, surely I wouldn't sell the whole box, just one or two packs to each person... But 200? Starter packs without cards? Too easy to get caught!

@Manfred the more I think about it, the more I begin to believe some people behind scenes (in Panini or the middlemen between Panini and final seller) might be the real culprits... Unless the Fantop guy is really stupid with this.

And btw, another video from the same guy, but with RTE 2016 and normal speed:
This is a messed up world indeed :\
 

Manfred

Active Member
Ok, I'll play a bit devil's attorney with Manfred problem: could have been a Panini mistake? I'm saying this because I know in Brazil, they sometimes "forget" to insert some special stickers... For instance, Brasileirão 2015 had many problems with certain special stickers, which led to numerous complaints and even some reimbursements from Panini there... And it's not unusual to have problems there, they had issues with Women World Cup, like one or zero shinies per plastic envelope (they don't use boxes).

So, what I'm asking is if there's a possibility those boxes are the final product of someone in Panini who, purposedly or not, didn't insert the shiny cards? Though I'm much more leaned to believe it was a seller manipulation, we can't forget Panini does make mistakes... Once, in a portuguese card collection, I got only 44 different cards, out of 216... Box missed two packets, some had 8 cards while others had 4 (normal packet had 6), clearly a badly produced box... Then I tried buying 3 packets in a nearby store and again, the same cards, so in that area, stores received badly produced boxes.

One more thing: I don't understand why sellers do this... Don't they think they'll be easily caught? If I wanted to tamper some box with just low value cards, surely I wouldn't sell the whole box, just one or two packs to each person... But 200? Starter packs without cards? Too easy to get caught!

@Manfred the more I think about it, the more I begin to believe some people behind scenes (in Panini or the middlemen between Panini and final seller) might be the real culprits... Unless the Fantop guy is really stupid with this.

And btw, another video from the same guy, but with RTE 2016 and normal speed:
This is a messed up world indeed :\
At the time I bought those boosters I wasn't very experienced with cards, I am originally a sticker collector. But I am 100% sure it was a scam, because now I know there are 5 different booster packs but in a box you will only find 4 of them in one box. In those boxes I bought ALL five were in ONE box. And not 10 of each but in different numbers. Also when you open such a box there are two rows of boosters when you open a box, these boosters were placed on their side. The kind of plastic what is used in the kitchen was wrapped around it. If he was innocent he must have seen that when he bought those boxes. At that time I didn't know about the Panini seal on the box. And it was a very big order. I opened those boxes much later, and a shock it was. And do trust me, am I guy who often see the good side of people. I am not a person who accuses people easily!

Calm down, Manfred... I'm sure he didn't meant to call you a liar... Sometimes when people are satisfied with something and then hear that something is not good, it's hard to believe... Don't take it personally, we're all on the same side here: true collecting.

With Manfred, it's clear even these unlikely scenarios don't apply, one shiny is impossible... But I bet you got a lot of those Star Players and such (it's WC 2014, right?)... Btw, you didn't complain with Paypal?
It was a Champions League Collection from 2 or 3 years ago, and I had indeed many Star players but I bought those boxes for the special cards including the special Nordic ones. I didn't need those star players. My order was big and I handled those Nordic boxes too late, I had complained before about those empty starters and he accused me of doing it myself. I was a bit shocked by his rude reaction. Didn't expect much of it and I assumed he was after getting some quick money.
 
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LFC1892

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Contributor
Without proof ????? 4 Nordic box: 200 boosters with only 1 (ONE!) shiny card is enough proof. Also 3 starters without limited editions and boosters is again enough proof to me. Several people, experienced collectors, admitted to me that in earlier editions of Adrenalyn XL cards it was possible to sort the boosters in ones with shinies and one without. And rereading your comment you are actually implying that we are the liars. I not only lost almost 300 euros, now I am also insulted!
Don't be a softarse Manfred, I did not say you lied or even emplied it. If anything I am on your side. We are all collectors who love the hobby and strive on making it fun. Sorry if you got offended like.

@Manfred if you still need some WC 2014 cards please let me know and I will gladly help you if I have them.
I don't want anything in return.
 
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dantzig

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@Manfred Yes, no one doubts you got scammed, plenty of situations you described that it's easy to tell you were ripped off... My concern now is trying to figure it out as much as possible who could be the real culprit.

You're right, those boxes wrapped with that kitchen plastic is easily seen, so either seller didn't see it or he's the culprit... But if he really did it, then he's a numbskull for not even know how to deceive people... And that's what makes me confused, the scandalous situations where it's so easy to see it's a scam and yet, they do it anyway.

I can't believe I'm going to defend these guys, but here's what I think: someone outside Fantop (or from Fantop, but not accountable) tampered those boxes and SPs... The guy who's in charge of sending stuff doesn't check if it's all legit or not, he just wants to send the stuff ordered (Fantop has a lot of orders per day, almost like those huge retailers who don't even bother to check the products properly before sending)... It's almost a chain of events, some unscrupulous, others incompetent... So basically, what I'm saying is, even if Fantop didn't manipulate products, at least they are incompetent for not seeing tampered products... And of course, their lousy customer service, always implying their buyers are either stupid or crooks.

And I'm not even considering now problems in Panini factory, because from what I saw in their factory videos, it's very easy there for an employee to not insert the best cards and somehow, keep it aside to himself.
It was a Champions League Collection from 2 or 3 years ago, and I had indeed many Star players but I bought those boxes for the special cards including the special Nordic ones.
Since all packets had at least one special card, all foils and Nordic were replaced by the non-foil special cards... You always get +/- the same amount of special cards, the difference is obviously in overall value.
 

Manfred

Active Member
@Manfred if you still need some WC 2014 cards please let me know and I will gladly help you if I have them.
I don't want anything in return.
Thanks for you offer, LFC1892, but it wasn't the WC 2014 set it was the CL 2012/2013 set, I had to look for it because I put those out of sight on a top shelf. And now looking at it, there were also 2 gift boxes with the same worthless boosters. I was so angry that I stopped with the hobby for some months....
 

LFC1892

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Thanks for you offer, LFC1892, but it wasn't the WC 2014 set it was the CL 2012/2013 set, I had to look for it because I put those out of sight on a top shelf. And now looking at it, there were also 2 gift boxes with the same worthless boosters. I was so angry that I stopped with the hobby for some months....
Ok I got the wrong collection then. Good thing you are back collecting. Don't let one bad experience stop you from something you love.;)
 

Manfred

Active Member
Ok I got the wrong collection then. Good thing you are back collecting. Don't let one bad experience stop you from something you love.;)
I would have wished it was only one bad experience. That year I was also scammed by two collectors, one from Israel and one from Brazil.....
 

dantzig

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I would have wished it was only one bad experience. That year I was also scammed by two collectors, one from Israel and one from Brazil.....
Terrible year then... Pavle had also a rough year about the same time... Actually, I met him after he was scammed by a portuguese idiot, because I knew who was the guy, after he scammed a lot of portuguese too, so I tried to help the best I could... At least one good thing I can take from that very sad episode was to know one of the best guys I've dealt with.

But after that, he built this amazing community from scratch, so I guess that episode even gave him more strength to gather the best people in one serious community... Anyway, after all these posts, I'll pay much more attention to all products I buy online... Probably even make a video about each one, just to make sure I have some evidence.
 

Andy

Active Member
@Manfred Yes, no one doubts you got scammed, plenty of situations you described that it's easy to tell you were ripped off... My concern now is trying to figure it out as much as possible who could be the real culprit.

You're right, those boxes wrapped with that kitchen plastic is easily seen, so either seller didn't see it or he's the culprit... But if he really did it, then he's a numbskull for not even know how to deceive people... And that's what makes me confused, the scandalous situations where it's so easy to see it's a scam and yet, they do it anyway.

I can't believe I'm going to defend these guys, but here's what I think: someone outside Fantop (or from Fantop, but not accountable) tampered those boxes and SPs... The guy who's in charge of sending stuff doesn't check if it's all legit or not, he just wants to send the stuff ordered (Fantop has a lot of orders per day, almost like those huge retailers who don't even bother to check the products properly before sending)... It's almost a chain of events, some unscrupulous, others incompetent... So basically, what I'm saying is, even if Fantop didn't manipulate products, at least they are incompetent for not seeing tampered products... And of course, their lousy customer service, always implying their buyers are either stupid or crooks.

And I'm not even considering now problems in Panini factory, because from what I saw in their factory videos, it's very easy there for an employee to not insert the best cards and somehow, keep it aside to himself.

Since all packets had at least one special card, all foils and Nordic were replaced by the non-foil special cards... You always get +/- the same amount of special cards, the difference is obviously in overall value.
its a theory Carlos but couldn't of happened that way ie someone else tampering before Fantop got to the box. Its blatantly obvious fantop opened the boxes as if not Panini's Factory seal wouldve been on the item still when Manfred received them and not kitchen foil from Poland or whatever what they guy had already used to catch the guys hair in while he was cutting himself a mullet hairstyle!!
The only possible way the box would've not been sealed was if he bought from his local newstand which were selling packs individually on sale/return basis...but for that to be the case he wouldve paid retail price for it and sold at the same price!!!
If we manage to discourage at least one person from dealing with fantop in the future I will be happy!!
 

LFC1892

Well-Known Member
Contributor
I would have wished it was only one bad experience. That year I was also scammed by two collectors, one from Israel and one from Brazil.....
man that is awaful, hope you have better year this year & 2016.
 

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