European Super League: Yay or Nay?

[dantzig]

After the confirmation of the new European Super League, what are your thoughts?

And in terms of collecting for us, will this open a new album? Topps has already all UEFA competitions, but Panini does have multiple club licenses... it may very well replace FIFA 365, in my opinion!

 

[LeicesterRob]

It's a 100% 'nay' from me!

 

[archieduke]

A terrible idea, completely against it.

 

[Ceesmk]

Really better than the new Champions League...
At the end, there will be of course only 1 competition, and both Super League and UEFA will claim that they won. A new Champions League with 15 invited teams...And I hope that they will use the system of the Super League instead of the new one of the UCL.

 

[LFC1892]

It was only a matter of time for the ESL to be created. Let's not kid ourselves here it is driven by greed and money.

The big clubs don't want to share the prize money in the CL & EL with 80-90 other participating clubs.

Instead, the ESL clubs will share the new money from the American Bank JP Morgan and there will be much more for them to share.

The CL has gone stale and boring the last few years with the same format and smaller teams playing in the group stages just to make some money which lead to poor quality of football.

Let's be honest here the Premier League chiefs for example are not much better as they are the ones who founded the league in 1992 to have Sky Sports money and now they are getting fucked and they don't like it.

UEFA & FIFA always been corrupt and we all know it. They founded the Champions League to make more money for UEFA from huge sponsors like Sony, Heineken, Master Card, Visa and others.

With the pandemic clubs big and small are bleeding money and owners trying to find a way to stop it. See below.



This new ESL will not replace the domestic league fixtures so founding clubs will continue to play in their own leagues.

The new age of football is upon us and there's still plenty of hoops to jump through before it happens.

 

[gaspy]

A big NO !!!

 

[dantzig]

Really better than the new Champions League...
At the end, there will be of course only 1 competition, and both Super League and UEFA will claim that they won. A new Champions League with 15 invited teams...And I hope that they will use the system of the Super League instead of the new one of the UCL.

I also think this is what might happen, ESL for now is a way for big clubs to pressure UEFA for more royalties... Despicable in my opinion, but they have the biggest portion in this business of trillions and they are not willing to share.

This new ESL will not replace the domestic league fixtures so founding clubs will continue to play in their own leagues.

You sure they can still play in their own leagues? Because national federations don't like this too and are willing to not allow these clubs to play in their domestic leagues... plenty of misinformation in that department now.

Pandemic has brought the best and worst in mankind... perfect word actually to describe the humanity.

In the end, I think this is a good example of "capitalism vs socialism", though UEFA is far from socialism

 

[Iulian]

A dismayed Nay.

Call me a romantic, but my idea of football is the underdogs getting one over the big boys every now and then. I remember that before 2015 I barely knew anything about Leicester, but boy how I rooted for them that year. The same for Atalanta, M'Gladbach, or Lille when they disrupt the hierarchies.
If the national leagues kick out the big clubs, there won't be any more of such memorable stories.

This super league is just a greed orgy. And I know that the UCL has become stale, especially in the past five years, but there were better ways to change that than this ESL abomination or the new 36-squad that UEFA just adopted for the future UCL. It just shows that neither part cares about the fans.

 

[dantzig]

From what I'm seeing now, reactions have been quite negative for the 12 clubs... English main supporting associations are against this.

I think this tweet sums a lot of what the fans think:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1383923542987710476

 

[LFC1892]

You sure they can still play in their own leagues? Because national federations don't like this too and are willing to not allow these clubs to play in their domestic leagues... plenty of misinformation in that department now.

Pandemic has brought the best and worst in mankind... perfect word actually to describe the humanity.

In the end, I think this is a good example of "capitalism vs socialism", though UEFA is far from socialism

That's what I read in The Guardian & The Times. The PL for example will stand to lose tons of money if they ban the 6 clubs wanting to play in the ESL.
Socialism never existed among the rich. Many of us agree on that mate.

 

[Burkina2008]

Super League? Top Clubs?

- Juventus has been eliminated in the CL in the last 3 seasons by clubs they consider not deemed to be in this Superleague, Ajax, Lyon and Porto
- Tottenham has never won a CL...actually they have many more seasons that they played Europa League/Uefa Cup than CL
- Arsenal is even worse, they have one Cup of winners Cup and a Uefa cup.
- Chelsea and Man City are clubs with less tradition than Nottingham Forrest or WBA and have had some success in the 2000s only
- Atletico Madrid has been relegated (and not due to corruption as Juventus) in the 90s in Spain.

Yeah its all said when this "Superleague" league of 12 best clubs is missing 5 of the top 12 clubs with the best accumulative record in Uefa competitions and has in it 2 clubs that do not make the top30.

I hope that Uefa basically takes these clubs effective immediately from the Uefa competitions, awards CL to PSG and Europa league final between Villareal and Roma. Consequently not paying any CL prices of TV rights this year also for these clubs.

Most players already said that if they cannot play in the National Team they will not represent these clubs. So good luck playing with a bunch of nowbodys in a 12 team competition with each one playing 15 times against the other club...

That's what I read in The Guardian & The Times. The PL for example will stand to lose tons of money if they ban the 6 clubs wanting to play in the ESL.
Socialism never existed among the rich. Many of us agree on that mate.

This has one of the easiest solutions ever. EPL can give the spots to clubs that will be called for example Arsenal 2021, similar badge and all. Then we can see if the fans want to see Arsenal plaz Brighton on the weekend and Bayern in midweek or if they prefer Arsenal playing against Inter 12 times in the same season.

 

[dantzig]

Socialism never existed among the rich. Many of us agree on that mate.

Ahah, agree "Charity" is the term they prefer.

Super League? Top Clubs?

- Juventus has been eliminated in the CL in the last 3 seasons by clubs they consider not deemed to be in this Superleague, Ajax, Lyon and Porto
- Tottenham has never won a CL...actually they have many more seasons that they played Europa League/Uefa Cup than CL
- Arsenal is even worse, they have one Cup of winners Cup and a Uefa cup.
- Chelsea and Man City are clubs with less tradition than Nottingham Forrest or WBA and have had some success in the 2000s only
- Atletico Madrid has been relegated (and not due to corruption as Juventus) in the 90s in Spain.

Yeah its all said when this "Superleague" league of 12 best clubs is missing 5 of the top 12 clubs with the best accumulative record in Uefa competitions and has in it 2 clubs that do not make the top30.

I hope that Uefa basically takes these clubs effective immediately from the Uefa competitions, awards CL to PSG and Europa league final between Villareal and Roma. Consequently not paying any CL prices of TV rights this year also for these clubs.

Most players already said that if they cannot play in the National Team they will not represent these clubs. So good luck playing with a bunch of nowbodys in a 12 team competition with each one playing 15 times against the other club...

Even though I agree with all written, I would prefer a more "professional" dialogue without threats... Superleague is not the answer we want to a UEFA revision about the best club competition in the world, but we all know how UEFA arrogance is bigger than the universe.

PSG has not agreed on the the Superleague purely because they have tight connections with BeIn Sports, who has UCL rights, besides owners have serious ties to FIFA in Qatar World Cup... so no way they also deserve to win UCL right away, bosses would happily jumped ship if they had anything to gain from it... Bayern and Borussia though, they seem really genuine to deny ESL with respect to their fans... Anyway, there goes the 15 permanent members that ESL wanted.

All these clubs now try to move away from the "greedy image" they're being attached to, like Atletico who released a statement with nine reasons to join ESL... Nothing has convinced me they are just using UEFA has a scapegoat to keep the profits for themselves and extend the gap between spanish top three and the rest.

In the end, it's like @Iulian wrote, we need EVERYONE to have some pleasant surprises like LCFC or Atalanta "kicking" the status quo and ESL is only appealing to build 12 super squads... everyone loves to see the best of the best fighting each other, but only when MERIT is also in the equation, not lifetime free passes.

Quite proud to see portuguese players already against this new ESL, even when some are playing in those 12 teams... I saw how would Portugal team would become without the players from those teams and it wasn't that bad actually, I'm sure all would give their all to replace Ronaldo, Bruno, Bernardo, Felix or Cancelo.

 

[CSKA Sofia Forever]

Do you think anyone cares about our opinion? Just look at the owners of these 12 clubs, and what else they own.
If they want this semi-closed league, then they will organize it. Do I like it? No, I hate it! It is against the major principle of football: competition! Competition that sees champions like Montpellier and Leicester, stories from relegation to continental glory like Atletico Madrid and River Plate. Money have already sucked out all football resources outside of a handful of football leagues. Now the richest in those leagues want to concentrate all the quality in one league. For even more money, of course. Do I like it? No, I hate it! But does anyone care? As long as strawberry-popcorn-kisscam-cheerleader-loving spectators are buying enough tickets, shirts and other club-related stuff, everything is fine. No one cares about the game.

Oh, and one last thing! Utmost respect to all German and French clubs that turned down the offer to join the greedy initiative! I hope their decision is final.

 

[dantzig]

It is said that JP Morgan is behind all, financing everything... lots of american investors, oil kings arabs and even russian mafia... perfect, the same ruining everything as usual... do americans (in general) only think about money? It's not enough to have thousands and live comfortably, they need to show off they are billionaries?

Yesterday I listened to a portuguese ex-referee who pointed out a lot of problems for ESL to gather reputable referees... how will they get it? Wave at them with bills of money? If so, they know their "official" days as referee are over... so referees in the end of career? Could be, but it's a short term solution... Then what referees can they get? Top ones? Unlikely, they won't jeopardize their career for a not guaranteed fortune... So the second level?They might find a few with dollar signs in their eyes, but then it won't be the best of the best... And then will it have VAR? It needs to have, if they want to keep it "honest"...but it costs a lot if they have to build it by scratch (though money doesn't seem to be a problem)... Also, who will judge the referees? Who will rate them? So many questions.

Then all 12 say they have the same power in decisions, no high power to decide everything, like UEFA... but that looks good only when the first penalty is not awarded to some team who will say they were robbed... the opponent will say it's all good of course, they won fair and square... so the other 10 (or 18 if they can find all 20) will decide? So who can say they will not be as corrupt as UEFA.

Bottomline is, ESL have to think of a lot besides gathering 15 powerful clubs and make them play each other every week... this is not like when you were a kid and gathered in the ring nearby to play football with a overused ball.

 

[CSKA Sofia Forever]

Apart from greed, the other ESL driving force was the accumulation of huge debts - the 12 clubs have to pay back 7.7 billion EUR according to Gazzetta dello Sport! COVID-related losses only worsened the situation, and I think this is the main reason why these 12 clubs decided to launch such a tournament so quickly. This is nothing less than a completely selfish act because it is no one else but them to blame that they accumulated those debts. We, as long-time fans of the game who have seen fantastic players of skill and character over the years, are sick of these one-day-wonder players getting after 10 good matches in a row contracts worth 100 times the pay of teachers, doctors and other much more important members of our societies! We are sick of this insanity with superexpensive TV rights that left a lot of households, especially in the developing countries, without top football. We are sick of ticket prices that left a lot of passionate supporters out at the expense of random spectators. We are sick of everything that contributed to these 7.7 billion EUR debts only of those 12 clubs! I am not sure it was only the fans, the local governments, UEFA and FIFA that made the English clubs change their mind - maybe they got a deal to get more money thorugh the traditional competitions - but I was very happy and proud to see the resistance of all normal people against this insanity: fans, some active and numerous former players and managers, various officials. This is a clear sign that we LOVE football! No matter what we do for a living, at the end of the day we all want to have OUR football. I am sure the war is not over yet, but as long as we stay together for the game we love, it cannot be lost.

 

[chriswiggy]

As a Leicester City fan I am obviously going to say NAY. Our pyramid system with promotion and relegation makes it possible for a team like LCFC to move from the Third Division to Premier League champions in the space of seven years. Of course we were lucky to be bought by a rich Thai family who have invested in excellent players and a new training ground. But the soul and ethos of the club still feels like the club I first saw at Filbert Street as an 8 year old boy in December 1968 (coincidentally playing one of The Six, Manchester United). I cannot imagine our owners making such a monumental decision without consulting the manager, club staff and fans, as the owners of The Six have done. From reports I have seen today, the idea of the ESL is now dead in the water - for the time being - as it cannot go ahead without the Premier League Six who have now stepped back from the project. It would have perhaps made an interesting sticker album but I can't see any merit in the idea other than that.

 

[tennisboychris]

And do not kid yourselves about the current owners of the English 6. They all bought their clubs with the sole intention of trying to do this at some stage as this is how they thought they could maximize their investment. Parasites!

 

[dantzig]

So in the end, this is what I take:

- All clubs fled, except Real (Perez is stubborn, besides his mind only functioning around money), Barcelona (Laporta still believes in ESL, but want to discuss more with UEFA) and Juventus (Agnelli is like Perez, but more realistic).

- UEFA will not forget this easily and will probably punish the 12 in some way, possibly with less consequences to english clubs, as they were the first to apologize... but even english fans are willing to see their clubs punished for this betrayal to them.

- These were decisions taken ONLY by the owners without even considering the "immediate level" below (like Woodward from MUFC and Maldini from AC Milan were caught off guard on Sunday).

- Despite all consequences, this ESL made waves in the steady puddle that UEFA is, besides showing up how greedy the football has become and how fragile it is too, when a pandemic is enough to destroy even the rich clubs because owners spend more than they should, players earn more than they deserve and agents charge more than their actual work.

Plenty of work to be done now... Rich clubs can't demand UEFA to do their part if they are clearly not willing to be sustainable, as they promised it would happen with ESL... Perez complaining 600 million budget is not enough for Madrid is like that top executive saying his sports car is not fast enough, when the guy next door is doing extra shifts to bring food to his family.

 

[LFC1892]

All the apologies from club owners mean nothing. Too little too late. Damage already done.

What's bothering me is the the sanctimonious hypocrisy of the FA, Premier League, other clubs, UK media, UEFA, and the UK government is stomach-churning.

The gullible UK public/fans is falling for it too.

 

[dantzig]

All the apologies from club owners mean nothing. Too little too late. Damage already done.

What's bothering me is the the sanctimonious hypocrisy of the FA, Premier League, other clubs, UK media, UEFA, and the UK government is stomach-churning.

The gullible UK public/fans is falling for it too.

There are no saints here mate, but the 12 managed to make UEFA some kind of "football martyr".

Just read now Perez interview after ESL broke up and it's amazing the POV that old fart has about football... some quotes:

“The one from Manchester saw the campaign saying this will kill the leagues, that it won’t allow [sporting] merit, that it was the end of football. There are people who have privileges and don’t want to lose them, even if it ruins football."
What the hell, in the end he just said what HE is!

“The owners are mostly not English. They’re not in it to make money, they have teams in America, love sport and they found themselves in a position they didn’t expect. They’re old, they got scared,” said Pérez, who is 74.
Ahah, that final remark about Perez age... "not into making money", "love sport"... are we talking about the same owners who didn't care for fans general opinion and got on board immediately after JP Morgan waved the bills at them?

Regarding Chelsea fans protest: “There were 40 of them and if you like I’ll tell you who brought them there.” (...) “Well, the person who put them there,” he said, not entirely coherently. “Like the one who organised the T-shirts in Cádiz. The same, the same. This isn’t normal.”

Right, 40... is he senile or genuinely think we're all stupid and can't count the massive crowd gathered outside Chelsea training grounds?

"It cannot be that in England, the six lose money and 14 make money. In Spain the top three lose money, and the others make money. That can’t continue; it is the rich are those who are losing money.”

What the... so everyone is earning money except the rich? Is this man real or simply out of touch? Even if this was true (which isn't, no club is profitting from a pandemic), perhaps a better management should be in place? Don't expect to earn profits out of nowhere just because you're a big club... Don't expect to amass scandalous debts and think it's all good because the club is worth much more.

Read also Barcelona statement and it's basically the same POV as Perez, but covered in a false apology.